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Re: anybody still here?
Mon, December 17, 2007 - 12:20 PMI'm here. I actually haven't read any of Jensen's books yet, but I've read a lot of articles written by him, and am now reading his introduction to "Pacifism as Pathology" by Ward Churchill. He has some very sane, sobering things to say, about violence and the like, even though they can be hard to accept.
I plan to read Endgame soon. A couple of my friends have read it, and each took a year or so to fully recover from the experience. I'm a little nervous about what he has to say in it!
Jensen is actually coming to Toronto (where I'm living) to speak at the beginning of February, and I'm pretty excited about that. -
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Re: anybody still here?
Mon, December 17, 2007 - 2:13 PMit seems to me like living in this (or any culture) is like having layers and layers of oniony conditioning that would need to be peeled away to see anything even remotely clearly. we can't see the layers much better than we can see our own eyeballs and peeling them away is a stinky, tearful business. i understand why your friends would feel traumatized. jensen is a good onion peeler, peeling back our minds quickly and precisely and in a very human, undeniable voice.
i first read strangely like war, because it was the first thing that came into my public library when i requested everything in the system by jensen. next came culture of make believe. i haven't read endgame yet. i flipped through it recently and it seemed like more of the same, really. i had a discussion with a friend recently. my friend said that jensen was too prolific/loquacious. i said he was somewhat redundant in his writing, but that i welcomed it. i had heard lies repeated enough in my life that i'd come to believe them -- and not even know i was believing. and so i liked to pick jensen up and have truth truth truth repeated. it was like having a set of tapes to pop in to compete with the first, accidental set.
i don't mean to make myself sound totally passive, just looking to have tapes played into my head. i just mean jensen is a good tool for unbrainwashing yourself. and then go out into the world (or into your life) and see, perhaps, if what he's saying is true. hitching around recently, i saw that something he said in strangely like war (a book about the terror on trees) is correct: a lot of what one drives past on highways and assumes to be deep forest is in fact a "beauty strip," a thin strip of trees that to the speeding-by highway eye looks like something a whole lot more substantial and makes us believe we haven't cut down as much of the trees as we have.
for now, endgame is too heavy to carry among my possessions, and i'm traveling light now. i'm kind of in the midst of a more living, less reading phase, but as soon as i settle back into society i will probably pick up jensen again. to me, he's a companion in the city, a way of being here and trying to get/stay a bit conscious.
what articles would you recommend? -
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unbrainwashing, peak oil
Tue, December 18, 2007 - 5:53 PMI very much agree with your sentiments, unbrainwashing, etc. I remember how I felt back when I read Ishmael seven years ago (which is what started me on this path). That was such a great experience, to realize how deeply this cultural mythology had ingrained itself in my way of thinking, to feel liberated from that. I read it a few times and Daniel Quinn's other books to really hit the message home, then followed up with Thom Hartmann's Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight, and thus was drawn into to the notion of Peak Oil.
I think since then, however, I've been so obsessed with Peak Oil and how society is going to deal with it (reading theoildrum.com all the time) that I've forgotten the spirit of Ishmael, of the necessity to abandon this culture and not try to "fix" it. In particular, being such an avid follower of theoildrum.com, I was often reading pretty well thought-out analyses of our way of life, the huge problems with it, and how it has to change - authored by people who are still very much a part of that "old way of thinking" taught by Mother Culture. While many of those people acknowledge the impossibility of infinite growth and the limits we are soon to be facing, the focus is still quite anthropocentric, and by reading all that material I was drawn into that way of thinking again. Drawn into the search for solutions, ways to cushion the economic downfall, ways to save all these human lives.
It was the film What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire that made me realize, shit! It's these human lives that are causing all the destruction we see. They're consuming the planet. This population will have to be cut down hugely, somehow. The destructive culture HAS to come down, and I have to help make that happen, not try to inhibit or slow down that collapse. I'm just surprised by how easily I was lulled back to sleep.
That film was very much inspired by Derrick Jensen, Daniel Quinn, and many other important thinkers. It has set me on the right path again, and this time I won't let myself be strayed from it.
A while ago I read a collection of articles by Derrick Jensen that I had downloaded on a file sharing program, and they were all pretty miscellaneous. Some were interviews, some were rants, but few really stand out right now. But there's one article I just read yesterday by him that was really good, called "Beyond Hope", excerpted from Endgame. Here's a link: www.orionmagazine.org/index.p...cle/170/ -
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Re: unbrainwashing, peak oil
Tue, December 18, 2007 - 8:22 PMinteresting. any thoughts of jumping off? that's the phrase that's gotten embeded in my brain lately. it seems to me people are just kind of jumping off the old paradigm. thinking of heading down to southern mexico, where some rainbows have bought land and are setting up a permaculture oasis. some of them (nomads united) get around by horseback (vegan saddles, no less). there are things here i like -- i like getting to meet people in tribeland. i like hearing recorded music. i kind of like some of the clothes that don't fit in my backpack, replaced by my solar powered water purifier, sleeping bag, few other essentials.... -
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Re: unbrainwashing, peak oil
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 10:28 PMI do think about jumping off, definitely. Southern Mexico... it sounds like it would be pretty amazing. I've heard some really cool things about Oaxaca in particular, and heard WWOOFing stories from around southern Mexico. A permaculture oasis?? Man! I'd love to visit. Please tell me where I can find out more about it!
I was planning on doing a long bike trip down to Mexico (and maybe beyond), but now I feel as if that will take too long and would sidetrack me from the more important goal of establishing my own farm/community (which would probably be permaculture-based, or something along those lines). Perhaps I could still train or bus it down there and bring my bike along to save time...
As for my own oasis, I've been leaning towards BC, as it seems, depending on which part you live in, it's a pretty safe bet in terms of surviving peak oil, global warming, and ecological calamity (aagh!). Canada in general is just so well-endowed with natural resources, and especially BC. If worst came to worst, civilization's infrastructure crumbled and there was chaos everywhere, I imagine that with a good set of wilderness survival skills one could get by for a while living off of BC forests. I see the mountains as being pretty good barriers against rampaging ex-city dwellers and the like. And of course, there's the temperate climate along the coast, which could make growing one's food easier.
I like the sounds of your solar-powered water purifier... -
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Re: unbrainwashing, peak oil
Wed, December 19, 2007 - 10:58 PMgood thinking on BC. i was in portland last summer and loved it, never made it up to BC. slightly afraid of the cold and/or wet places. okay, very afraid of them.
the permaculture thing is an international rainbow gathering. they've bought a piece of land in vera cruz, which is in very southern mexico. i'm not a rainbow, but have had a strong feeling about this for several months. i think there is something very powerful about to happen there. wanna go? : )
i think there are lots of other permie places in central america. none of the ones i know about feel right.
i kind of wonder if it makes sense to postpone amazing self growing projects like long bike rides. it seems to me like so many good communities fall apart not because folks don't know how to do things (permaculture or whatever) but because they are too neurotic to share space effectively. so if people can do some stuff that allows them to be more shiny and strong, maybe that's a really important contribution to how things work. i think we're going to be our most important resource.
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Re: unbrainwashing, peak oil
Fri, December 21, 2007 - 8:43 PMThat's an interesting point about growing oneself before attempting to commit to a community. I think also just gaining experience living in community is also part of that personal growth. Understanding how you interact with others, what your strengths and weaknesses are in a community setting and how to work with them effectively... Of course, allowing yourself to reflect on all that so that you can gain wisdom from it may come best when you have time to yourself.. so maybe you need both.
you should definitely go to the rainbow gathering if you feel it calling. follow your instinct, i say. i'd like to go too! but it might not be possible until March/April or later... but you should go and post about it here!
i've never been to a rainbow gathering, but i've heard about them through my brother-in-law. he says the spirit of them is pretty awesome and i'd probably really enjoy them.
BC isn't always cold and wet! i guess Vancouver area is during the winter. Vancouver Island, and its many little baby islands, are quite wonderful in the summer - actually pretty dry - but i haven't spent a winter there yet. -
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Re: unbrainwashing, peak oil
Sat, December 22, 2007 - 12:07 AMthey are setting up a permanent permie community in vera cruz.
i don't know how i'm going to feel about the gathering.
i have been thinking a lot lately about not wanting to be around habitual pot consumption, addiction in general. it seems kinda lonely.
i hear the international gatherings are maybe less about getting stoned.... but i don't know; just doesn't appeal much. not the kinda ground i wanna try to build community on. feels more like sand to me.
willing to explore, though. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: unbrainwashing, peak oil
Wed, January 30, 2008 - 10:03 AMUPDATE: that scene in vera cruz TANKED. alas.
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anybody still here?topic posted Sun, December 16, 2007 - 6:02 PM by H.P. Meow Me... |
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